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Mushroom hunting in different countries


Guest Vlad

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Here is a story on mushroom hunting in Russia. Tara Maginnis does not sound Russian but she captures the feelings the Russians have for wild mushrooms.

http://www.costumes.org/TRAVEL/00pages/MUSHROOM.HTM

"Russians, especially professional mycologists, in fact, find the idea of "overpicking" preposterous. St.Petersburg has spent so much of this century with starving hordes (during the Revolution, Civil War, and W.W.II, as well as present) picking up anything edible, that if "overpicking" were possible, it would have happened long since. Instead, even the most casual mushroomer will tell you that dependent on the weather each year (and from week to week), different areas get good or bad harvests."

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Here is a story on mushroom hunting in Russia. Tara Maginnis does not sound Russian but she captures the feelings the Russians have for wild mushrooms.

http://www.costumes.org/TRAVEL/00pages/MUSHROOM.HTM

"Russians, especially professional mycologists, in fact, find the idea of "overpicking" preposterous. St.Petersburg has spent so much of this century with starving hordes (during the Revolution, Civil War, and W.W.II, as well as present) picking up anything edible, that if "overpicking" were possible, it would have happened long since. Instead, even the most casual mushroomer will tell you that dependent on the weather each year (and from week to week), different areas get good or bad harvests."

Agree completely. Thanks for the link :)

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Good story! Thanks for posting the link Vlad. It's funny how telling your children they can't go mushroom hunting in Russia and some European countries is punishment of the highest degree yet this country is still so mycophobic. That would just never happen! Now take their cell phones away and that's a different story. biggrin.gif

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Different countries have different approaches to picking. In parts of Europe you need a license to pick mushrooms even for personal use. This law led to a pile of deaths in Italy last year as folks would go out at night to avoid being caught without a license. I think 14 died there from falling off cliffs in the night. Here in Ontario the left wing malnourished vegetarian tree huggers have arranged for picking to be banned in provincial parks and conservation areas (this is millions of acres). The county foresters are giving thought to banning picking in public county forests. The issue for them is that the large numbers of pickers are trampling the underbrush killing seeding trees that would eventually repopulate the forests as the old ones die. When september comes our forests fill up with Euros and it becomes difficult to find mushrooms on a weekend because everything has been picked. The good news is these folks dont bother with the summer mushrooms. No one here seriously thinks that mushrooms will become endangered by overpicking. The issue seems to be controlling the september hordes who think trespassing laws are there to provide them with unpicked mushrooms. Many of these people have no clue what they are picking. I often see people coming out of the forest with a bucket of mushrooms then start looking for someone who can tell them which ones are edible. Really scary yet I dont hear of many mushroom poisonings.

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Proof positive that you can not over pick mushrooms is the country of China. They have been picking wild mushrooms for about 4000 years and still have plenty for their own consumption and export. A Chinese outfit sends me an e-mail about every month offering to sell me dried mushrooms.

I think that states that try to control how much a person picks, or where he picks, are just looking for a way to tax the mushroom hunters.

I hope that this country adopts the 2 track mushroom hunting like the Russian, Italians and Chinese have. Mushroom hunters learn from their parents or their friends and use common names, in these countries. Mycologists learn in colleges and use scientific names. Now that the Mycologists, in this country, are turning to DNA for identification, I hope that traditional mycologists and amateur mycologists will turn to using their knowledge to produce mushroom guides that will be easy for beginners to use. Most beginners are interested in finding edible mushrooms. They are not interested in learning Latinized names of mushrooms. Most do not plan to become amateur or professional Mycologists.

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Ah, but there is an advantage to knowing the Latin names of mushrooms. If you are ever in a foreign country and don't speak the native language, but want to learn about local mushrooms, pick up a book in a book store and the Latin names will always be the same and you will be able to read them. I was in Finland on my way to Russia and bought a field guide to mushrooms of Finland but the only names I recognized were the Latin names. Makes good sense to me if you are going to be serious about this as a hobby.

California has become one of those states that not only regulates and has limits on mushrooms but patrols the state parks to enforce their silly rules. The limit of wild mushrooms per person per day up at Salt Point State Park in northern CA is 3 pounds. Heck, that could be just one porcino and you're done for the day! HUH?????

In Montana, Oregon, WA, CA where forest fires encourage bountiful harvests of morels the following spring, picking permits are required. Commercial permits for those who intend to sell their harvests to buyers and personal use permits for those who are only picking for personal consumption. The personal use permits are free but it is required that you cut your mushrooms in half lengthwise to prevent you from selling them commercially. Pot hunters are allowed one 5 gallon bucket of mushrooms per day per person.

The wild mushroom harvest is such a huge, huge business, I only see it getting more stringent with more rules over time. The price for matsutake used to go for as much as $30.00 + per pound to buyers and now buyers are paying as little as $2 per pound. Of course it is all supply and demand but there is a pretty large area these mushrooms are being harvested from CA, OR, WA, ID, and of course Canada. In OR you have to purchase a permit even for personal consumption for matsutake. No freebies for the most part. Most forests require a bought permit.

Lastly, there are lots and lots of great field guides and as I mentioned under the library forum, Gary Lincoff has just recently published a new book intended for beginning mushroom hunters that specifically discusses edibles that are easy for beginners to identify. It is called The Complete Mushroom Hunter.

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The way the scientific names are changing since the Mycologists started using DNA identification I think the common names are more stable :o) Also if you are in Finland I am sure that most of the species you find there will not be found in this country so what is the good of a scientific name if you can find that mushroom in Finland and adjoining countries only? I think I would do what Tara Maginnis did, hook up with some native and go mushroom hunting with them. They know what is good to eat and how to best prepare it.

That is the problem with socialist states, they want to control every phase of the citizen’s life. They pretend that these services are for the citizen’s own good, or best for the environment, and of course they have to tax the citizen so that they can provide these services. They might call it some name like “permit” but it is really a tax. Right now I think of California and Massachusetts as the two states with most advanced socialist governments. I hear that CA is almost broke. If it would go bankrupt the citizens would able to revert back to a democratic form of government. Then the mushroom hunters could go hunting mushrooms on public land without a permit or hassle from the government :o)

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I'm glad I live in British Columbia, a province with no restrictions (yet) on collecting mushrooms from Crown (public) lands, which constitute the vast majority of the areas away from communities. Picking is prohibited in parks, but the prohibition is enforced in only a few of them. The other advantage here is that there are relatively few people picking wild mushrooms, but there are huge forests near the cities where you can step away from a trail and never see another person all day. Where I pick mushrooms, I rarely see any signs that someone has been ahead of me, even in easily accessible places near Vancouver.

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The Midwest is suprisingly liberal compared to California ... :D

Almost all parks in Missouri allow collection for personal use.

Illinois is just about as open, with the additional stipulation that

in turkey season, you can't hunt mushrooms before noon ... and hunters

can't shoot after noon. That's a nice bit of insurance during morel

season!

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Also if you are in Finland I am sure that most of the species you find there will not be found in this country so what is the good of a scientific name if you can find that mushroom in Finland and adjoining countries only?

au contraire, mon ami....here is a short list of mushrooms found in Finland that also can be found here in the USA: Boletus edulis, Suillus luteus, Leccinum aurantiacum, Lepista nuda, Macrolepiota procera, Coprinus atramentarius, Craterellus cornucopioides, Cantherellus tubaeformis, Cantherellus cibarius, Hydnum repandum, Morchella elata and the list goes on and on. Even if the names change thanks to new DNA research, it is still worthwhile learning the names in Latin if you ever want to be serious about mycology. If you only go out once a year for one kind of mushroom..."Italian" mushrooms or "French" as the Italians used to refer to them in SFO. They only picked two kinds and the rest they could care less. In fact they didn't even want the chanterelles, just the porcini....Hey, a little exercise for the brain never hurt anyone!

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Mary,

The way I understand it, the Boletus edulis in Europe is different enough to be a different specie to any one here in America. Just in appearance you can see the difference between the King of California and the King up here in the Northeast. When the Mycologists get done with their DNA work our Kings will known as Boletus edulis var. northeasticus and Boletus edulis var. californicus, or something like that :o) But the common name will be still King Bolete.

North American Boletes shows 8 variations of the American Boletus edulis and I do not see a picture of the one I find here in MA. My guess is that we will wind up with at least 10 different species of Boletus edulis by the time the DNA analysis is finished.

Same goes for the rest of the specie you have listed, in my opinion.

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Mary,

The way I understand it, the Boletus edulis in Europe is different enough to be a different specie to any one here in America. Just in appearance you can see the difference between the King of California and the King up here in the Northeast. When the Mycologists get done with their DNA work our Kings will known as Boletus edulis var. northeasticus and Boletus edulis var. californicus, or something like that :o) But the common name will be still King Bolete.

North American Boletes shows 8 variations of the American Boletus edulis and I do not see a picture of the one I find here in MA. My guess is that we will wind up with at least 10 different species of Boletus edulis by the time the DNA analysis is finished.

Same goes for the rest of the specie you have listed, in my opinion.

The ones in Italia seem to be identical to the ones here (as least visually)

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Luigi,

Next time you go to your relative in Italia bring your King(s) with you. Have your relative cook up some Italian Kings and yours the same way and then have a taste test. I think that such a trip and report would be a great contribution to mycological knowledge :rolleyes::o)

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Mary,

The way I understand it, the Boletus edulis in Europe is different enough to be a different specie to any one here in America. Just in appearance you can see the difference between the King of California and the King up here in the Northeast. When the Mycologists get done with their DNA work our Kings will known as Boletus edulis var. northeasticus and Boletus edulis var. californicus, or something like that :o) But the common name will be still King Bolete.

North American Boletes shows 8 variations of the American Boletus edulis and I do not see a picture of the one I find here in MA. My guess is that we will wind up with at least 10 different species of Boletus edulis by the time the DNA analysis is finished.

Same goes for the rest of the specie you have listed, in my opinion.

This is where you get into the "lumpers" and "splitters" -- those who hypothesize less and more separate species,

respectively. I tend to lean towards the first group, since my interest is primarily edibility. Sub-species and

varieties aside, I prefer the precision of Latin names -- "red caps" could mean a LOT of different mushrooms (especially

in different areas), Russula emetica means only one. With varieties that you need a microscope (or SEM) to distinguish,

I'm often content with just genus level ID -- like Strobilomyces sp.

Not to mention that there are thousands of mushrooms which don't have a common name ... Many of the "common" names

in the Audubon Field Guide to mushrooms were made up ... so if you used a name like "Torn fiber head" or "poison powder puff"

your listeners most likely would not know what mushroom you are talking about.

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As more DNA analysis becomes available, it is increasingly the case that mushroom species in North America -in particular eastern NA- are technically different from those found in Europe... even when the Euro and NA ones look and taste the same. Some species found in western NA are more closely related to the Euro types, and in some cases to types found in Australia (as I understand it). So, from a technical point of view, it may be incorrect to call a yellow morel found in eastern NA "Morchella esculenta." This is why some people call them "esculenta type." But this is a mere technicality... and probably not yet completely understood anyway. So common names like "yellow morel" do seem to have their place. But there are points for confusion... like, for instance, the "gray morels" of western NA burn sites are not the same type as the "gray esculenta (types)" of eastern and mid-western NA. And, to make matters worse, some folks in parts of NA call young elata types (most commonly "black morels") "grays."

I think this all shows one reason why a website like this one is useful and interesting. For even if we are using different names, it's likely that we may often be able to reach a consensus as to what types we like to pick/eat... by sharing information, customs, and pictures.

As for the (state) rules of picking, we don't have many such rules here in PA. But that's probably because edible mushrooms rarely occur in large enough quantity to stimulate a commercial wild mushroom market. As I understand it, in the western NA states most of the rules are the result of competition amongst commercial hunters.

Here's a funny story for ya. In 2000 I made my first ever trip to the Rocky Mountains(or anywhere in western NA). My wife and I spent two weeks in Glacier, Yellowstone, and Teton National Parks, and I had been really psyched about picking mushrooms out there. First we drove the rental car -packed with camping gear- to Glacier. We chose a remote camping area that required driving across 15 miles of unpaved road. Just before we arrived at the sites, a large hand-drawn cardboard sign appeared... "Mushroom Hunting Not Allowed"...! The first thing I thought was "which one of my ****** friends arranged for this?!?" I seriously momentarily thought it was a joke perpetrated by somebody who had a contact out there in GNP. Of course, that was a silly theory. The truth was that there was quite a controversy caused by commercial morel hunters descending upon the park in the wake of forest fires. The solution put in place by the park service... $500 fine for anyone picking even one mushroom...! Pretty severe. I was thus inspired to compose the following song.... To the tune of "Paint it Black" by the Rolling Stones.

Cut it Down

I see a bolete and I want to cut it down.

I see Suillus and I want it for my own.

I see the pretty mushrooms in the woods of pine.

But if I cut it’s a five hundred dollar fine.

I see the Matsutake growing near the glade.

I see the chanterelle quite lovely in the shade.

I want to fill my bag with mushrooms from the park.

I guess I’ll havta wait until it’s after dark.

I see a Russula, it’s sprouting near my tent.

Might be xerampelina, but I can’t tell the scent.

I want to put my hand around its slender stalk.

I’d like to harvest it, but for fear I balk.

I see the burnt ground, it is covered with morels.

Just want to pick a few, not near enough to sell.

I turn my eyes away from the wondrous sight,

but esculenta visions haunt me through the night.

I see a bolete and I want to cut it down.

I see Suillus and I want it for my own.

I see the pretty mushrooms in the woods of pine.

But if I cut it’s a five hundred dollar fine.

Hmm, hmm, hmm,...

I wanna cut it down, cut it down.

Wanna fry up what I found.

I wanna see that bolete in my basket.

I wanna, wanna cut it down! Cut it down! Cut it down!

Yeah!

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Feral Boy and Dave,

Very interesting post, Dave.

The only place I know you can find mushrooms in quantity, in the Northeast, is on Cape Cod. Even there the mushrooms that grow in quantity are Scaber Stalks and Slippery Jack type. These are not the favorite edible of the American public so no commercial pickers come, though some of the Russians act like commercial pickers. I met one that came from New Hampshire and he and his family loaded the trunk of their car before going home to clean and process them.

Others come from NYC and stay a whole week at a motel so that they can go mushrooming every morning while in the afternoon they process them and drink vodka. I also talked to a resident of Truro who told me that he once met a Russian family that came from Russia on vacation just to pick “Reds” on Cape Cod.

I like Cape Cod for the Matrutake and the Gypsy mushrooms. Russians avoid them. I never found a King on the Cape. Also they have large clumps of Honey Mushrooms in September. I also like the Cape for the unique mushrooms found nowhere else in the US like Boletus billieae which E. E. Both named for his wife since she was the one that found it when they were gathering specimens for the book MUSHROOMS OF CAPE COD AND THE NATIONAL SEASHORE. William J. Neill was the one that found it previously on the Cape and told Both about it. Bill Neil also discovered a Bolete that grows only in Japan and on Cape Cod.

Common names make sense for edibles. English Mycological Society had no problems gathering and making a list of common names of mushrooms in the British Isles. A try was made here in US but no list of common names was published. I took up the job of producing such a list for NA mushrooms. It took my about three months to get it done. After I was done a member of NAMA send a copy of the tentative list that they produced. Links to both lists are found on this page of my web site:

http://www.mushroomhunter.net/common_names.htm

Since I am also interested, now, in non edible mushrooms and there is no common name available for most of them, I have come to tolerate scientific names.

For edibles I like lumping so that for me there are only three kinds of Morel; yellow, black and half-free. The Russian are the ultimate lumpers. They lump all Russula into Siroyeshki and eat them all if they are not wormy. They par boil all of them so they get no upset stomachs.

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I like the subject of this post. Here's my personal experience of mushroom picking, which happens to take place overseas... nothing to do with overpicking, regulation or taxonomy but hope you enjoy none the less. It's a little long winded, apologies in advance.

I grew up in Manhattan's lower east side (NYC) - no mushroom hunting there! But throughout my childhood between the ages of 5 and 13 my family lived on again off again on a remote island in Greece, in a house with no running water, no electricity (for the first few years), an outhouse and a chicken coop. My younger brother and I didn't speak the best Greek and there were only a handful of farmer children in our village anyway so we spent most of our time in the field collecting everything we could, bringing home our treasures and idnetifying them using our field guides. Rocks, minerals, fossils, butterflies, insects, flowers, mushrooms, seashells - nothing was safe from us. We bird watched, we fished and speared octopus, and we foraged during the rainy season.

The locals were expert at foraging wild greens and they helped us identifying the good edibles - we harvested pig weed, dandylions, mustard greens, purple hyacinth and asparagus in huge quantities. Despite being surrounded by mycophilic countries Greece has a very mycophobic culture and we received no help at all from the villagers when it came to pointing out edible mushrooms. In fact the old women used to yell at us when they would see my brother and I picking mushrooms, even going so far as to "rat on us" to our mother, thinking they were keeping us out of trouble. They would tell us that all mushrooms are poisonous, that we would die, and so on, but we didn't care. We found consistent patches of field mushrooms, puffballs and blewits. We would check our spots every few days (it rains every day in the rainy season there) and pick them whenever they popped up. I still vividly remember the first time we ate blewits and we all agreed that Dad wouldn't eat any in case we were poisoned so he could drive us to the hospital, but then he ate them anyway (we all lived).

In our village there was a boy named Tasso (I know there's a member here by the same name - please don't take offense at what follows). My brother and I weren't very fond of Tasso, he wasn't very smart, or nice, and he used to show up at our house unexpectedly and ask us if he could have our toys. On one of our trips to Greece we brought toys from America for all the children in the village and after that I guess he just assumed that what was ours was his. So one rainy winter day Tasso showed up at our house a few minutes after my brother and I returned from the field with a big basket of field mushrooms. He barged in looking for toys but stopped dead in his tracks when he saw the basket of mushrooms. "What are those?!" he demanded. "Mushrooms" we calmly replied. Tasso became visibly agitated. "Why do you have all those mushrooms?!" he wanted to know. "We eat them, they're good" we told him. He didn't believe us. "Those are poison! They will kill you!" he was raising his voice and turning pale. "No they're not I said" as I popped one in my mouth, chewed and swallowed. "Here have one" I offered. Tasso was horrified. He truly believed with all his body and soul that I had just committed suicide. I forget exactly what he said but he stammered and backed himself out of our kitchen as fast as he could, no mention of toys. That was the last time Tasso ever dropped by the house.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Here is a Russian Flicker like web site that shows photos of mushrooms in Russia. Briefly checking it out, it looks like they consider that only Kings and Scaber Stalk mushrooms are worth photographing. They use only common names, as far I can see so far. I did not see one scientific name used. But there are thousands of pictures. Arkadiy gave me this link to keep me busy until he gets a chance to write to me.

http://fotki.yandex.ru/contest.xml?id=81

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Wow, thanks for the link, Vlad. Some very, very cool photos. I saw other mushrooms like chanterelles and waxy caps but lots and lots of boletes and Leccinum....nice photos. I wish when I had been in Russia I'd been there at the right time for mushrooms.

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Now that I looked at more I see that they have many other species photographed. Most of them do not have the name of the mushroom just artistic tags like “Handsom Twins”. I was surprised how many look like ours here in the US. I was able to recognize the Velvet Footed Pax and Oysters. When I saw the picture with a King growing in a bird nest I decided to save some of these picture and started all over. Now I see a page, on my web site, called the Kings of Russia :):rolleyes::o)

Also a surprise is that their Honey mushrooms grow up the trees rather than at the base of the tree as they do here in MA. I am interested to see what are the names they use for them. The Winter Mushroom they call Winter Honeys.

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Here are a couple of pictures that show honey mushrooms growing up a tree in Russia. On birch? Has anyone found them growing like this in this country? All of mine are at the base of oaks. I did find some on a rotten log and they grew on that up to 3 feet off the ground. The lady from Moscow told me she used a long fishing pole with a monofilament line tide in a loop with a slip knot. She slips the loop around a bunch of them then pulls on the line to tighten the loop and cut off honeys. Sometimes it rains honeys other times she can dislodge the whole bunch.

Could not figure out how to insert the images into this post. It asks for URL of image???

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