Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
diana

Trichoderma peltatum?

Recommended Posts

Found an oddball and may have lucked into an identification.  Does this look right?  No mention on Mushroom expert about spore print which is abundant and a creamish  in color.  Growing from a short sweetgum log.

1118181055_HDR.thumb.jpg.37c88ac59fa4f846e3788766a6997c90.jpg

1118181055b_HDR.thumb.jpg.9b2380885507bb389bed405ebc4c90e3.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sure looks like Trichoderma peltatum as seen on Mushroom Expert. 

Checked for this species on Champignons du Quebec. Not listed, but there are other species of Trichoderma documented on C du Q. What a weird genus! All sorts of shapes, sizes, growth habits... Trichoderma is a genus of Ascomycetes. I don't know of any ascos that have spore print other than white. With a microscope, you could probably at least verify it's an asco. 

My guess is you've got this thing IDed correctly. If I get a chance later today --kinda busy-- I'll check my Ascomycete Fungi of NA book. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Dave!  Spore print was a shade of white.  Had this sitting on my stovetop which is black and printed by accident.  An offwhite.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, isn't this interesting. AF of NA does not list Trichoderma peltatum. But the book does list Hypocrea peltata, and it looks just like what is seen here... beige colored thin-fleshed leathery convoluted sheet-like masses with central attachment to wood. Range reported as subtropical extending as far north as N. Carolina. 

Apparently, some species of Hypocrea undergo an "anamorph" stage in which fruit bodies do not form asco spores, and instead produce conidia, asexual spores. There are a few other species of Hycocrea listed in AF of NA that have Trichoderma anamorphs. AF of NA says of H. peltata, "This is a highly unusual Hypocrea species in that it does not produce a Trichoderma in culture." That is, this particular Hypocrea species may not be known to undergo an anamorph Trichoderma stage (as far as I can tell). I'm certainly no expert on this stuff. But, it appears that at least some of these Hypocrea species had previously been listed as Trichoderma species due to confusion arising from the dual nature of these fungi. 

AF of NA syas about the spores of H. peltatum, "ascospores dimorphic part-spores, distal part-spores globose to conical, proximal part-spores mostly subglobose to wedge-shaped.." (I left out reported measurements.) This sounds really interesting. 

Diana, do you still have access to these? I'd love to have a look at the spores. Do you use  microscope? Also, I know a professional mycologist up here in PA who I believe includes Hypocrea as an area of research. If so, could you send some dried material to me? Also, could you send some spores folded into wax paper or foil? 

May I have your permission to use the photos to create a post on Mushroom Observer? Or, you could do this yourself. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just about all you wrote is Greek to me.  Funny, I came across another one on Thursday.  It may be still be there - don't know how long these last.

I do have a microscope that I purchased for the purpose of looking at spores but have yet to do so.  I suppose that the best way to collect spores for the scope would be to put the (drawing a blank here dang it) that piece of glass you put things on to view or would that be to dense to see?

But sure, you can use my pictures and if still in the yard I'll send you the dried specimen and spores.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great! 

Yes, I always hope to collect spores for study on a microscope slide. If the print gets too thick then they may be a bit unruly once mounted (too many bunched up or moving around in the liquid). The spores need to be mounted in a liquid, and then a slip --little round or square thin piece of clear plastic/glass-- needs to be placed over the mounted spores. Usually, you need to tap the slip with a pencil eraser to get a decent seal. Asco spores can be difficult to see when mounted in a clear liquid (although for a few types distilled water works okay). The recommended liquid stain for Ascos is "cotton blue". If you send me some spores, I can probably produce a decent photo of them mounted in cotton blue (or maybe Congo red will work better?). 

I'll go ahead and create the MO observation. Maybe someone will add some insight. Half of that stuff I quoted from the Asco book is "Greek" to me also. But it seems to indicate there's some interesting things to see under the scope. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I did find the original mushroom in my compost bin.  (not really a bin or correct compost heap since it's never layered or turned)  Seems in good shape.  I did look for the other one I saw growing and couldn't find it but did find a young something that looks like it will grow up to be identical.  No spore print from either.  Since these are pretty solid and I think they would travel well should I just put in a padded envelope and send whole as is to you?

Mushroom Observer is where I found the id.  I often look there to see what people are finding currently in Florida.  Helps narrow down on the identifications also.  That is how I stumbled onto this https://mushroomobserver.org/343815?q=abZ5

Good to know, do all spores need to be mounted in liquid?  I will practice doing that since I have a little kit that has stains and such that came with the microscope.  I do need to practice using the scope and get familiar with it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Spores should always be mounted in liquid to insure that they spread out nicely. 

I'll message you with my address. Maybe it would be best to wait until the new young one matures, so that you might get some spores. The older ones may as well be dehydrated. Actually, this will insure that they hold up through the mail.

MO observation.    https://mushroomobserver.org/346916

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had already picked the younger one yesterday to try for a spore print.  I will put both in the dehydrator and keep a lookout for more.  If I do find another I will let it mature in order to collect spores.  They are very leathery and should dry fine whole.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Specimens received yesterday in very nice condition. I scraped a little surface material onto a slide, but I didn't find any spores under the scope. Diana, do you know if the spores that dropped came from the outer/smooth surface? 

Thanks for sending it. I'll have another look when I have more time this weekend. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't remember where exactly the spores dropped from BUT the log that the first one came from is producing another in the same location.  I brought the log onto the screened porch and put a piece of foil under the log to catch any spores since I have no idea when this thing would be mature enough to produce.  (Small log only brought in so that DH does not do anything with it by accident.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×