Saffron milk cap in Ontario

[Christa]

I found two saffron milk caps fruiting between two white pines in Ontario. I'm pretty sure they are Lactarius deliciosus. Spore print is light ochre. The cut area turned green overnight. Further down the trail from this spot in the forest, I found a quite a few Indigo milk caps.

[Calvert]

Yes that's the North American version of "Saffron Milk Cap".

Lactarius deliciosus is a European species.  The (virtually identical) species that occurs here in Ontario (and all of NA) is Lactarius deterrimus.  

[Christa]

This is certainly an interesting species! I didn't think it was L. deterrimus as I read it is mycorrhizal with spruces, and L. deliciosus with pines. Perhaps this only applies to the species in Europe? However, my mushroom specimens do show characteristics with L. deterrimus in that the cap margin is not lined and it is also dull orange with a bit of a greenish tint, as both mushrooms appear to be mature. I also looked at the stem and it was hard to determine if it had the indentations or potholes, which I understand are pronounced in L. deliciosus. Learned something new. Thanks for the clarification, Calvert!

[Calvert]

Yes, they grow with Spruce and Fir, and generally not White Pine.   There could have been Spruce/Fir close by?   The tree roots extend some distance, and the mycelium even further.   I found one last week and the only conifer tree close by was a scraggly spruce about as tall as I am.

There is a bit of uncertainty concerning Lactarius section Deliciosi here in North America.   They know (through DNA studies) that's it's definitely not Lactarius deliciosus, but a general consensus on exactly what it exactly is hasn't been reached.    More properly, what we find should be called Lactarius aff. deterrimus, where the aff.=affinis means closely related to, but I usually leave out the aff. unless I'm feeling very pendantic!

The 2 kinds of orange-latex (ie. orange milk) coloured Lactarius we find in Ontario are L. deterrimus (which stains green), and L. thyinos (which doesn't stain green, and has scrobicules/"potholes" on the stem.  Both are found with Spruce and Fir.  And they're both good to eat.

I tend to just call them Orange Milkys, and The Green Stain One and The Not Green One.

[Calvert]

Too add to this, I should mention that L. deterrimus has orange latex which slowly changes to reddish/marron/vinaceous, eventually staining the flesh/gills green.

[Christa]

Yes, Calvert, there actually was a spruce tree about 15 feet away. And my specimens had orange latex that changed to maroon and then overnight to green, including the bruises I made to the gills. Thank you so much for taking the time to explain this to me. There seems to be a lot of misinformation out there and almost everyone I talk to has another version of how to identify the saffron milk cap species and Mushrooms of Ontario and Eastern Canada (George Barron) does list L. deliciosus. I have a feeling that even some of the experts are undecided on this topic? But your answer makes sense to me. Thanks again!

[Calvert]

That book was published in 1999, so some of the names have changed since then.   Sometimes they do a DNA study and find that two look alike mushrooms are actually the same species, or like in this case, the one growing in Europe is actually a different species than the one growing in North America. 

But otherwise, that's a great book!  It was my very first mushroom field guide and still often the one I reach for first.   The names of the odd one might have changed but the mushrooms themselves (photos and descriptions) are still the same.   I just mark in with a pencil the new latin name.

[Patrick from Ontario]

Mushrooms of Ontario and Eastern Canada (George Barron) has a new edition that was published in 2016

[Calvert]

Sweet.  Do you know what the changes were?  Updated names, I assume.  Anything else?

I should pick it up.  Despite making a custom protective cover, my old one is certainly showing it's age after all these years and use.

It's possible that the author decided to stick with L. deliciosus as well, until there is more consensus on what the North American species should actually be called.   The mushroom groups here in Quebec (which I primarily use as a point of reference) tend to be quick to adopt new names.

[Patrick from Ontario]

I'm aware of this new edition only because I just purchased the book myself, but it's currently in transit for delivery so I cannot comment on any updates related to Christa's post.

If no one else has addressed this by the time it arrives I will certainly have a look and relay any new information

[Christa]

My addition is from 2014 and L. deliciosus is still listed as such. I too find this book a useful resource. I can't comment on changes from the older edition, since I only have this one. 

[Dave W]

I find what I call Lactarius deterrimus under a variety of different conifers. I suspect this name may represent a species complex. 

[Patrick from Ontario]

On 10/6/2021 at 2:40 PM, Patrick from Ontario said:

Mushrooms of Ontario and Eastern Canada (George Barron) has a new edition that was published in 2016

Hi just an update, the version I purchased states 'New Edition' on the cover but it was printed in 2014 so perhaps Christa and I have the same version

Lactarius deliciosus is still the published name......curious as to what was actually changed for this 'new edition'

 

[Dave W]

Some authors continue to use old names, because those are the names recognized by people who have been using older books. I think it's best to use the new name and then also include a reference to the old one. In the case of the eastern NA green-staining orange-latex milkies, it is not accepted by all mycologists that the species name deterrimus applies (partly because there may actually be more than one such taxon). Perhaps calling these "Lactarius deterrimus group" or even "Lactarius deliciosus group" would be best. I would favor the former. 

[JOHNY]

My property is loaded with mushrooms that look like that. They ooze orange from cut/torn surfaces. But I never seen it turn green. How long does it take for the colour change?

[Christa]

A big thanks to everyone for sharing their expertise on the Lactarius deterrimus/Lactarius deliciosus group! This was my first post in this forum and I'm highly impressed with the quality of the answers!

Regarding the question from JOHNY, my mushrooms turned green overnight. At first, the orange cut and bruised areas turned into a dark red colour, then eventually green. You can see it in the last photo.

[Calvert]

11 hours ago, JOHNY said:

 But I never seen it turn green. How long does it take for the colour change?

The colour change is kind of slow.  About an hour?  Often there is already noticable green stains on the cap/flesh unless they're very young.    

Lactarius thyinos is very similar with orange milk and doesn't stain green at all.     

You need to be careful, because there are orange ones with WHITE milk that are toxic.

thyinosLactarius thyinos