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Red belted conk?


JimDiGriz

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Hello! This one I found on a dying chestnut tree in a park. I was so happy I finally found reishi (ganoderma lucidum), but after some more looking into it, I guess I wanted it to be reishi too much to see the clear differences...

I narrowed it down to red beltted conk (fomitopsis pinicola), maybe mounceae (but I'm in Europe, and those apperently are not common here?)...

Maybe even ganoderma applanatum, but I'm not really sure...

Top is not realy hard and woody, more like hard dried out leater. Bottom doesn't bruise much, just slightly darker on finger press. When freshly cut, it had reqlly strong musky and almost chemical smell to it.. stem is basically non existant, it grew like this from the bark.

I am trying to collect spores on a aluminum foil but it's not droping any after 2 days now...

If it ends up being red belted conk, does it have any supposed medicinal properties simmilar to reishi? Can it be double extracted with alcohol and boiling water just like reishi?

 

Thanks!

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In the link below from 2018 presents sample records of fomitopsis pinicola growing on many species of softwoods and hardwoods. So, I wouldn't rule it out due to growing on a chestnut. Pores on the bottom seem noticeably larger from any Ganoderma I've found here in the States. I'm interested in seeing what other have to say here.

https://www.science.gov/topicpages/f/fungus+fomitopsis+pinicola

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Thanks for your reply!

I've just found about ganoderma pfeifferi, europes ganoderma so to speak, but it doesn't have a sweet smelling pore surface.. it smelled more like acid or something sour.. (that fits more into one description of freshly cut pinicola I've read somewhere)

Are there any simmilar poisonous bracket fungi? 

I sould point out that on later pictures where I scored the poresurface and it left a dark mark, the mushrooms were a few days old, I was waiting for them to drop spores but with no luck... 

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Interesting to say the least. According to MushroomExpert the F. pinicola does not bruise brown on the cream colored spore side such as in your provided picture. 

https://www.mushroomexpert.com/fomitopsis_pinicola.html

I’ve read that Ganoderma tsugae grows in south Europe and visually looks a lot like your specimens and stains brown on the white/cream color spore side. G. pfeifferi is said to have a waxy excretion but only during winter and spring per the link below.

https://www.first-nature.com/fungi/ganoderma-pfeifferi.php
 

In my limited experience I would say without microscopy, narrowing it down to a species may not be possible. But I’m sure more experienced members here would be able to help with the genus. At first glance my guess was a species of Ganoderma, that was until I started researching the “red belted conk”. 

 

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Tbh, even though this seems not to be the toxic polypore Hapalopilus nidulans, I'm gonna halt the further tincture production from this mushroom, unless someone says something more helpful and determinative..

I'm not sure it's tsugae since it doesn't have any kind of stem typical of most ganodermas, even though I would like it to be.. 

It just didn't want to drop any spores for a few days, so I can't really tell anything about that, even if I had a microscope...

I've left a few smaller mushrooms on a tree so I'm gonna check it through the year. If it ends up being a slow grower and looks like it's perennial, I could be fairly sure its not ganoderma species...

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That’s a good idea to stop any tincture or consumption process until further analysis. Better safe then sorry. 

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Thanks for your inputs!

Am I right in thinking if it's red belt, it would take years to grow? I'm sure I would see them before if they grew for many years and, based on a number of bands I observed when I cut them, it would be at least 15 for the biggest one...

Is there any ganodermas that are known to grow for multiple years?

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I think all Ganoderma species are annual. By Red-belted Conk I assume you mean Fomitopsis pinicola. This mainly grows on pine (and other conifers, but I have only found it on pine). Mushroom Expert says it can grow on hardwood. But Mushroom Expert also says that F. pinicola does not bruise/stain brown (at least not very much). The brown bruising on the pore surface is more of a Ganoderma trait.

One thing that may be done to separate Fomitopsis pinicola from Ganoderma is to apply KOH to the flesh. For F. pinicola the reaction is dark red; for Ganoderma the reaction is black. 

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Yeas, by red belted conk I mean Fomitopsis pinicola.

On the first set of photos you can see my fingerprints and they didn't leave much of a dark bruise.. I didn't intentionally try to bruise them hard to see the color change, but oh well..

The second photo set showed the intentional bruising that left a dark mark, but the mushrooms were a few days old at that point so maybe that fact changed how they bruise...

I've read about reactions to KOH, but I also found that toxic Hapalopilus nidulans reacts red in Europe (elsewhere purple)- possible slight polyporic acid variation... LINK

So if it stains red I would still be in a doubt.

But anyways, I don't have potassium hydroxide on me, but I do have sodium hydroxide that is also strong base chemical. Is the reaction specific to KOH or does the reaction occur with any base chemical (NaOH in my example)?

 

Thank you for your answers!

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Still doing a little research on Europe's Ganoderma species. Found G. resinaceum to be quite similar physically to what you have. Note the brown spore tubes with a small white colored tip at the bottom and pore size. Bruises brown as well. Some observations have more of a stipe growth, some not. Below are links I've reviewed. Still a shot in the dark and prob confuses things even more.

Links: 1; 2; 3

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Seems like I've considered this Ganoderma species before, as I see some of the links on google are visited before, but for some reason didn't pursue this.. Maybe the description of resin threw me off, as I didn't see that at all.. I've seen some water condensation under the mushrooms when I tried to collect the spores but didn't think anything of it...

But looking at some of the pictures in the second link you've posted really makes me wonder.. Some do look like classic Ganoderma Lucidum with a stipe and all, but some are really like the ones I found... I guess I'll revisit the site again and try to take some more pictures and observe if there's any resin oozing out of it. I think I've seen some dead and dried up fallen on the ground by the tree, so I'll take a few pics of them too.

Brown tubes with white tips really are similar. Also the spicy odour description somewhat is descriptive of the ones I've found (at least it says it has any smell)..

For the taste test, I don't really know is it smart to even lick a piece and spit it out/ rinse...?

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The Ganoderma genus is far more complexed than I originally assumed. It seems like each species has such a wide range of looks depending on what time of year/age/region of the world you find it and/or species of tree it’s harvested from.
 

I’m unaware of any species within Ganoderma that would be harmful to use the nibble/taste/spit technique. But, it’s always better to be safe given the confusion around your specimen. 

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I decided to do a quick taste test on one piece I dehydrated, really making sure I spit out everything and rinse with lots of water.. I just touched it with the tip of my tongue and can confirm the bitter taste.

Still haven't had a time to test with NaOH, let alone acquire KOH.

I hope to find some time to revisit the site where I found them to do more observations and take some pics. I'll report back as soon as I do.

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On 7/24/2021 at 3:37 AM, JimDiGriz said:

Thanks for your inputs!

Am I right in thinking if it's red belt, it would take years to grow? I'm sure I would see them before if they grew for many years and, based on a number of bands I observed when I cut them, it would be at least 15 for the biggest one...

Is there any ganodermas that are known to grow for multiple years?

Ganoderma applanatum is indeed a perennial ganoderma, so not all are annuals. I eyed a big one growing at the edge of a pond for years before I decided to pick it for tea. I believe this is what you have found too.

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Thanks for the correction, Indigo. I was thinking of the "varnished" Ganodermas... G. tsugae G. curtisii, G. sessile, which are annual. G. applanatum is perennial; a new layer of tubes/pores grows each year. But the fruit body remains as a single intact entity for years... becoming bigger/thicker. 

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No problem man. Reishi are my most sought after mushrooms, so I gather up every type when I find them. I always feel bad harvesting applanatum though, because they are a beautiful perennial and they deserve to keep growing, but I don't find those as often as I do the others, so you know how that goes, haha!

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On 8/1/2021 at 6:45 AM, Dave W said:

G. applanatum is perennial; a new layer of tubes/pores grows each year. But the fruit body remains as a single intact entity for years... becoming bigger/thicker.

This is interesting and could help with identification. As seen on a first picture of my second post, It doesn't seem like they grew in this fashion. Also, there's an example of this kind of growth on mushroomexpert and the ones I sliced don't really look like this, more like concentric circles emanating from the center outwards.

But then, here's a picture of an old one I found on the ground. Really looks much thinner than the live brackets (may be because of drying out and shrinking):

 

20210802_171116.thumb.jpg.41c1d019fbca000a354b91fe579e0e91.jpg   20210802_171124.thumb.jpg.7fcbe9308b75ae20bdf771c660abcfc9.jpg

Notice the layering similar to the ones described on mushroomexpert:

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Also, the mushroomexpert describes the odor/ taste of G. applanatum as not distinctive, but when freshly cut, the smell was really strong, and taste test confirmed bitterness.

 

I kinda remember last time I was there I left one small white "bud" and one few centimeters big on a tree. Now there's more mushrooms and the one that was left as a white bud grew a bit and another bud appeared beneath it (first pic). But I may be remembering the whole situation wrong (don't have any pics from back then sadly).

Is there a stipe I'm seeing on the first pic?

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I did score one on the pore surface and it did turn darker. I didn't see any resinous droplets on any of them. Nor did I see any spores beneath them.

Also, stipe on the bottom pics?

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My specimen:

- on a chestnut tree

- flesh brown color when fresh and when dried

- pores white, bruising brown, can be seen with a naked eye, old specimen also white pores

- no stipe (?)

- spore color not known

- no resin droplets seen

- strong smell and bitter taste

- not sure if perennial

 

Bellow are mentioned species and their traits, "+" means trait same as my specimen, "-" means it's not (or usually not).

 

Fomitopsis pinicola:

- usually on a conifers

+ white pores, can be seen with a naked eye

- not bruising significantly

+ stem absent

+ odor musty and strong when fresh

 

Ganoderma tsugae:

- conifers, especially hemlocks

+ pores whitish

+ bruising brown

- pores becoming dingy reddish brown in age

- pores nearly invisible to the naked eye

- stem more commonly present

- concentric growth zones and melanoid bands absent

- whitish flesh

+ strong scent, bitter

 

Ganoderma pfeifferi:

+ deciduous trees

- secretes a sweet-smelling waxy substance

- upper surface easily indented with a finger

- pores cream, turning dark with irregular brown spots when mature

+ flesh brown

- sweet smelling ,taste not distinctive

- pores almost cannot be seen with naked eye

 

Ganoderma resinaceum:

+ deciduous trees

+ usually no stem

- thick yellow resin oozes from the fungus when damaged

+ spicy odour and a bitter taste

+(?) turns black when mature

+ white pore surface, bruising

 

Ganoderma applanatum:

+ hardwood

+ pores white to gray

+ bruising yellow to brown

- pores becoming dirty brown in age

+(?) tubes in annual layers

+ stem usually absent

+flesh usually brown, woody

- odor and taste not distinctive

 

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 Well, it's one of them. They also do look like they have a stipe for sure too.  I would think Fomitopsis is out, and I'm thinking it's for sure a Ganoderma. Hopefully you will get it all sorted so you can enjoy a nice warm cup of tea 😀 Have you tried to get them identified on mushroomexpert?

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Yeah, I agree it's probably Ganoderma of some kind. I tried keys on mushroomexpert, but it's incoplete for polypores. It came out to be a G. applanatum.  It does fit the most imo, but odor/ taste description really bugs me the most..

Anyways, I really do think it's not Hapalopilus and that it's not toxic so I think I'll continue the making of tincture..

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The tree seen in the latest group of photos looks like maple. I think the polyopres seen growing there are not G. applanatum, which does not have the "varnished" appearance on the cap surface. In eastern North America I'd call this G. curtisii. Not sure what to suggest for Croatia. 

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The tree is definitely chestnut, Aesculus hippocastanum I think. Maybe the leave on the ground puts you off, it's from the nearby platanus tree that has similar looking leaves as maple.

Do you think G.applanatum doesn't grow in Europe? I found THIS paper where it's mentioned as common (in northern Eurpoe at least).

 

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