Rick

Dave, Of coarse we have the spores to study from our spore drop. Then if one were to take a thin section of the pileus which included the lamellae (gills) perhaps we could also detect the basidium with spores attached. It certainly is an interesting area to develop. I was thinking that since you seem to have access to a biology department, why not take advantage of the equipment and knowledge on using the equipment. I'm sure the department must have a microtome and if so, you should try it out! One book that seems to be of great interest in this area Dave is titled How to Identify Mushrooms to Genus III:Microscopic Features by David Largent, David Johnson and Roy Watling. The ISBN is 0-916-422-09-7. I just don't think one can be exposed to too much knowledge in a lifetime! Besides, now that I have my microscope, my daughter-in-law who is a big horse enthusiast said I have to now learn how to do fecal flotation for equine parasites. She claims to have a old vet who is a real nice guy, and one that she has used for many years, she is going to inquire to see if he would be willing to give a class on the subject. She claims I could be very busy up at the barn where she keeps her horses. So Dave it only seems a natural combination horse poop and mushrooms! Back to our main topic, I think it would be nice to explore the whole mushroom from a microscopic viewpoint. Will it allow us to identify a "death angel" from a "honey mushroom", I doubt it. We rely on other easier means of identification for that task. Without knowing the extent of your involvement with the biology department, I would certainly encourage you to make good use of whatever facilities are open to you. Shoot, I have a couple of oaks that I'm thinking of cutting down just to inoculate with oyster mushroom spores to see if they'll grow. From my reading, that seems to be something that can be achieved without too much trouble. One of my next things on the list of "to dos" is to research out a Mycology 101 text book. Dave, the book above that I mentioned to you, although it is a good text, it is probably more at a PhD level. I'd prefer to start at the bottom up rather than from the top down if you know what I mean. Oh and I'm still working on the Melzer's issue too. Always something my friend! Regards, Rick

Thanks Dave, I appreciate you checking.

Dave, I was wondering if when working at the college you ever thought of using a paraffin mount section and a rotary microtome to produce thin sections for viewing? I wonder if a microtome would work for this rather than trying to get a thin sample by hand with a razor blade. There seems to be a fair number of units for sale on Ebay. Rick

I remember when I was a small lad, my little Polish busha would take us out in the woods during the fall of the year looking for these mushrooms. She would walk alone pointing with a stick and us kids would pick them and fill a sack full. Then she would take them home and make some bbq mushrooms for Sunday dinner. She would simmer them for hours and they were so good! She always cooked enough to feed an army, but boy did that house smell good when you first walked in! Something I'll never forget!

Dave, speaking of the Amanita, here is a site I came on that is very interesting. http://www.amanitaceae.org I find it interesting, but a little over my head without first having a good basic knowledge of terminology. Rick

Hi Dave, from what I've read on the visikol, it is only designed to offer higher microscopic clarity. It isn't intended to act as a dextrinoid reaction or amyloid reaction indicator. Having never used any of these solutions myself, I'm afraid I can't offer anything in the way of a substitute for obtaining a reaction indicator. I think the problem still remains in that the Chloral hydrate is still the elusive magic ingredient. What are your thoughts on using the iodine alone? What reaction would you expect to see? I guess I'd have to ask you as one who has used Melzer's, is it something that after having used it, you just wouldn't be able to get along without it? I keep going over in my head all those acquaintances that I know associated with the drug (legal) trade that might be able to obtain this solution for me. So far I've struck out.

I was wondering if anyone has or plans on using Visikol found here: http://www.visikol.com It’s touted as a substitute to Melzer’s, but really it is intended to give a high degree of imaging quality rather than a dextrinoid reaction or amyloid reaction indicator. Rick

Dave, All good points on color comparison. I'll have to look into a Auction Color Chart and see if I can pick one up. Glad you liked the website I found. It's a starting point for us that want to go to the next step. As for microscopes, I've kind of narrowed it down to a Meiji MT5310 biological laboratory phase contrast microscope. Well its really a big wish that will take a lot of convincing to the wife! Since I'm still working and 5 years away from retirement, I thought now or never, as after retirement we'll have to survive on cat food and mushrooms! As for another convincing point to the wife, we need it now as we still have a good set of legs under us for all the hiking we'll be doing while we still can. I'm trying hard to cover all the angles! Dave, you mentioned that you have been utilizing a microscope for a number of years now. Any chance you could provide me a shopping list of the stains/reagents needed for mycology work? I can start searching out the small stuff in the meantime. Any recommendations on slides and slips would also be appreciated. I think I read where some of the slides have a concave center for specimen and fluid retention. Regards, Rick

Dave, I found this website, http://www.first-nature.com/fungi/index2com.php, in my search for spore information. It is the most extensive to date that I've found. I'm sure you'll find it useful. I'll have to try asking my doc for the script, although with todays legal issues, I might not get it. Although if I explain to him that should I eat an Amanita thinking it to be a Horse mushroom after asking for the solution, the onus might be on him! It'll be interesting to see what he says. Rick

Hello Dave- Thank you for the reply. It is great to hear that someone does actually use a microscope to aid in the identification of mushrooms. I have to agree that the 400x is probably a little light in the power department. From everything I've read, 1000x seems to be the ticket. The Mushroom Expert does have some nice photos of spores doesn't it? The amyloid warts which seem to appear on Lactarius deceptivus would certainly be a telltale sign of identification I'd think. The color changes with KOH would be of value also, and let us not forget how nice it would be to have some Melzer's solution in our tool kit. I just don't have the connections to obtaining it and I do work in a hospital! I think I'm going to put my microscope up towards the top of my "wish and want" list and see if I can't start my own little library of spores. I think you've convinced me that it is a worthwhile endeavor.

Sorry, if I mislead you as to my order of, or only method of identification! I was thinking on using the more definitive spore print followed by spore identification in conjunction along with the photographic physical attributes. I am not that confident in my identification to just holding up a mushroom and declaring its name, especially if it’s one I intend on eating. I was thinking that the spore is the individual "fingerprint" of the mushroom giving a higher consistent degree of positive identification. Let us not also forget the use of reagents and stains as another tool in our tool bag to use for verification. In short, if the National Audubon Society Field Guide to Mushrooms North America would have gone one step further and included a microscopic photo of the spore (stained or unstained) to go along with the spore description it already gives for each mushroom described in its book, that would be an invaluable source of reference indeed.

Hello, I'd like to raise my mushroom interest to the next level and purchase a nice microscope for spore identification. I believe this would help in my mushroom identification along with the aid of photo comparison. There is a firm in Florida, Florida Mycology Research Center, which is willing to sell you identified spore prints at a substantial price. There also is an excellent article in MushroomExpert.com titled "Using a Microscope: Viewing and Measuring Spores". This gives all the great information one should record when identifying spores. It even provides some “through the microscope” examples to show how to measure, identify color and shape, etc. A very nice article, but limited in spore content. The crux of the problem is now that you have purchased your microscope, gathered your mushrooms, made your spore prints, and placed some spores on a glass slide under the microscope, what do you compare them to??? Thus the problem, there seems to be no reference library available for comparison. For those of us who are not 100% positive on our find, certainly can compare our find to pictures in a book or online. We probably can even find some information as to the color of the spore print, but as to the spore characteristics themselves, nothing. So if anyone, expert or novice, can point me to a website that contains a library of spore information, I'd be eternally grateful! This perplexing problem has me holding off on making my jump to the next level and purchasing a fine microscope. Really, with the nice microscopes today that allow photo capture and computer download, it shouldn’t be a problem to capture the spore information needed for a identification library. Thank you for your consideration to my inquiry. Rick